An Inspiring Transformational Journey in HR

Jose Leal (00:06):

Welcome to rHatchery Live. I'm Jose Leal. I'm here with my partner Matt Perez. And today's guest is Rohit Bagul. Rohit was intended to be a guest about a month ago, but we had some technical difficulties, and we wound up having a Tetè a Tetè with Matt and I talking quite a bit about what's happening and some of the things that we're experiencing in the radical community which was great. I thought for sort of doing that last second, I thought it worked really well. And we've had some people comment on that podcast and, and how much they enjoyed it. So, Rohit, we've got a lot of questions for you because you are someone that's sort of in that space, working in the real world dealing with you know, organizational issues and especially on the people side. Tell us a little bit about yourself. What brought you here today and what have you been doing with your work recently?

Rohit Bagul (01:22):

Yeah, thank you so much, Jose and Matt. It is a very honor for me to you know represent myself from the entire people ops teams, so we can say all, the entire, all traditionally we call that HR. Yes. so, I have been working in HR, or we can say the people team last six-plus years, especially in the IT industry. I faced a lot of challenges. We successfully executed many projects, and I've become a part of various projects related to the organization levels. Yes, I have predominantly relied on traditional HR practices last six years, and to deliver my work yes. And then I faced lots of issues. And the main part of it is the main thing is that my personal opinion is if for this, all the transformation it is called that if you have a if you face the challenges, and if you have a curse, then you will get all these things.

Rohit Bagul (02:35):

Because from my childhood, I read revolutionary books about this. I always talk about revolution or innovation in my entire journey, every time we talk about innovation from my childhood to now. So this is the main thing where I personally feel that whatever I see the challenges, whatever, I see the problems where, where you do not reach properly. And then I've identified these things and worked out well how we can avoid these things and how can we make a better part. So yes, I have faced many challenges…

Jose Leal (03:24):

Well, so, so the title of today's podcast is an inspirational transfer, an inspiring transformational journey in HR. So that's your journey. What you, you said that you've been from a young age thinking we need to change things, that there is a thing that needs to be different than what it is. What more recently has caused you to start doing things differently, and what is it that you're doing differently now?

Rohit Bagul (04:06):

Yeah. Basically I didn't get any identification of my challenges because yes, these are my personal challenges, because in the before, yeah, this is the advanced technology, because that time I think we are using we are the most means globally. HR is the most advanced. Before we, I think about this balance, because we are using a sixties or eighties you know objectives, and still, we are running right now, and the currently the global you know, globally we change the globalization. Due to globalization, our entire businesses have changed. And we run differently. Before that, we are using like assets, our, our assets called the assets to our people. And right now especially I realize after the Covid pandemic, because Covid pandemic hit us up very badly, and that time I realize we are not advanced on that, that level. So we need to transform ourselves at that time. We are facing lots of challenges. I personally, as HR feel that total when we talk with the other, so my same professional folks. So we talk about what is the challenges, what we, we all are discussing about these things. So that time we identify and we realize these, all the methods we are using, and we call that very proudly that time. Okay. But these create server problems. These are not sufficient. These are not sufficient.

Jose Leal (05:54):

Can I ask you to details some of those? Can you point out the ones that you guys, you and your colleagues in the industry identified as here are the things that we're doing, that aren't working?

Rohit Bagul (06:10):

Yeah, there is many like is in when the covid pandemic hit. Okay. So traditionally, we are using a traditional, but that they like for example we want to connect to the people. So, I asked one of my friends who is an expert in HR, how can we connect all those things? So, he says you connect with these using Google Meet or Zoom, I say, I don’t want the medium. I want to ask how I can connect to the people in the Covid pandemic. So, I don't want to any medium because we are facing limited accessibility. We do not have any collaboration Okay? To the, because before we are using the old traditional methods. And that methods like people reach you if they have a problem.

Rohit Bagul (07:08):

Yes. So they have a problem, then they connect with you. That is, you resolve their query. So, you are not going to connect them, Hey, how's everything going? How, what, what exactly do you need? How's, what is going on before that they come to us? Yeah, I have this query and I am working on that particular area. So can you please resolve these things? So, this is very small, these are the very small things, but we're, we realize, no, no, this is the very huge challenge we are facing. We're not to reach out to people.

Jose Leal (07:44):

What I'm hearing you say is that the problem with the way that we've worked is, has kept us disconnected.

Rohit Bagul (07:53):

Yes.

Jose Leal (07:54):

That it's been a process of working for the, work itself, but not connecting as people.

Rohit Bagul (08:03):

Yes.

Jose Leal (08:04):

Yes. And your question was, how do we connect as people? As people?

Rohit Bagul (08:09):

Yes. Yes. Because this is the first time I realize how as people think about me, I'm the HR, Okay? So first of, first of all, they are thinking about, okay, if HR is talking to humans, there is a big issue and they created something lot. So I personally, I, I create a mace and I think a big mistake. That's why HR is contacting me, but we need to try to convey them. Oh, no, no, no. I, just want to chat with you. Hi, everything is going on. How are these things? So this is a little bit of change, and I started to observe all this time. So this is the main concern where I am thinking about, so how can this change? We can change that.

Matt Perez (08:56):

So how was this received by other people in HR?

Rohit Bagul (09:03):

Sorry,

Matt Perez (09:04):

How was it received by the other people in HR? Or did they say, oh, Brandon, yeah, let's do that? Or what, you know, what was then, what was the range of connection of receptionist again?

Rohit Bagul (09:23):

Yes. So before means, before these things, they are like they feel afraid about the HR that the HR is coming to. And then these, these things is not getting properly. When we ping them, we, when we try to talk to them, reach them without any, any topic, so that time they feel something and nervous. So, this, this, this is the challenge,

Jose Leal (09:51):

But that, that, that's what you say the teams, the staff were feeling about you doing something different. That, but I think what Matt was asking was, before that, your colleagues in the HR department, when you said, hey, we need to do something different, did they agree with that or did they disagree with, with, with those ideas of we need to do something different?

Rohit Bagul (10:17):

No, they agree with that because, they also, when I convey them these things, so they also agree with that. I'm talking about, if I'm talking about my organization, current organizations in Casepoint, have a very good it's people-oriented vision and mission and their values are also okay. So that's why we, we already think that, that in our mind. Yeah. So, by using this, we try, I try to convey to my colleagues and my team, so they also understand this, all the spots very quickly, quickly because they also facing the same issue at that time.

Jose Leal (10:59):

And your colleagues outside of Case Point, did they also feel the same way? They were also going through the same things, you think?

Rohit Bagul (11:09):

Yes. ma my many friends see they are not associated with the QI company, current organization. So they're also facing the same issues because they're also talking about how can we, because the entire world after the, in Covid pandemic, the change, the entire works work system is changed. Working pattern is saying working style is a change. So, it is very hard to adopt all these things. So, my friends who were in with the various different organizations, they call in the Covid Pandemic. So we take a call and we just talk about what exactly things are going, what, how can we work on that? So these are very small things. We started to interconnect each and each other. So, we identify these, all those perspectives, yes, they also agree with that part, and they also try to think about how can we change all these things? How can we connect all these things? Yeah.

Jose Leal (12:11):

And, so one of the things that you've started to work with is, is Agile. Was Agile something that you had before this change, this pandemic change? Or is this a new thing for you guys?

Rohit Bagul (12:26):

This is a new thing for us because yes, we are familiar with it before our Covid pandemic, and also because our product teams are using it in, our organization. So we understand how the Agile is working and how, what is there you know, their working styles and working patterns. But they are, for the software development teams, the Agile is mostly they, they for the specialized for the software development. These are all different things. And when you try to come into the and implement into the HR or the people ops functions, then it is a very different part because when I started to explore about the agility when we introduce about the Agile things with the pro, when we see them, when I personally see the product teams are working, they are ready to tackle all these entire UCA worlds or Barney World, we can say that uncertain things happen. They are ready to tackle all these things because I personally observe, we achieve our goals as in the organization, and product teams achieve their goals. And this is the most important part for us. And this is the first inspiration I personally get. And that time I talk about myself. Yes. Right now I need to change myself.

Matt Perez (13:53):

So how did you adapt Agile to HR? I mean, let me ask you something. How, how did it work before the pandemic? Did you go around and talk to people and say, yeah, how are you, are your kids and, oh, I don't have any kids. And Well, when you have kids, whatever. How, how did it work before

Rohit Bagul (14:15):

Before we do, we must just concentrate on the people's queries coming, and then we reach over. This is the main first thing. Okay. So mostly our focus is to resolve the queries of whatever the people reached to you, resolve the queries and try to go ahead.

Jose Leal (14:37):

Okay. So, fire sort of firefighting. Sorry for interrupting Rohit, but, but it sounds like you're, you're sort of saying it was sort of a firefighting thing. If somebody said, there's a fire, we went and helped them with the fire, but unless there was a fire, we didn't have to talk to them.

Rohit Bagul (14:53):

Yes. Right. So not much we talked about that but personally, I initiate, some things into the entire journey. So, because I am a social person and I come from a social work master graduate, I completed social work in my post-graduation also. So that is why I try to approach the people. So, what is the Hi. Hello. How are you? But they are, think about the, yeah. HR is coming here. So just, just to complete the formalities. Okay. Hi. Hello. So, they talk about, okay, so I have a query. So can you, so it's a general

Jose Leal (15:35):

Talk. So, so it they, you wasn't very well trusted.

Rohit Bagul (15:41):

Yes, yes. So, it is very hard for me to gain the trust of people because if they, the HR, talk about the HR. Okay. So little bit they are afraid. Okay. So, I speak something about some things related to my work or any kind of thing, especially my manager. And if he says to them, my manager, and then my, my entire career is in. So yes, it is very hard for me to gain people's trust to people try, I personally take these things to try to ask to people speak up. So, I'm, I'm not saying all these things because confidentiality is my personal core value. So, you can speak with me about anything you can, but it is not working properly at that time also.

Matt Perez (16:38):

So, it was a problem before that you were dissected Yes. From people the pandemic hits. And now you are physically remote, so is the same problem, but more obvious that, that you're disconnected from people and you felt the need to connect with people rather than connect with work was what you were doing before the firefighting that Jose mentioned. So how did you resolve that? How did you, how did you go about resolving it?

Rohit Bagul (17:21):

Sorry.

Matt Perez (17:22):

How did you go about fixing the problem? Well, not fixing being more connected to people rather than through work.

Jose Leal (17:32):

Yes. What, what did you do? What did you do to Yes, build more connections?

Rohit Bagul (17:38):

Yes. So yes, I already share one thing because I saw that, our company's product teams, are using Agile and, they communicate with each other very so because Agile is not a process, I personally think that Agile is a behavior. Okay. So that is the main thing I identify in my so, so this is called I, I take this very seriously about the Agile is a behavior and you need to, because people do if the business is in this global era. Okay? So, after the Covid pandemic, we need to focus on the people first businesses because they are the people who are achieving your goals. So, people are the most important part. Ok. And I am thankful to my current organization because they have some people oriented their core values, vision mission.

Rohit Bagul (18:39):

That's why, it is quickly adapted for me to implement these Agile, these new innovative practices implement to the, my day-to-day work. So that's why there are any means in Covid pandemic. Once I started to learn Agile about Agile, and then I try to implement these things in, my daily work, and my work. So, it is very helpful for me to connect with the people. And also other, other, all the details, all the tasks it helps me to complete, to achieve the delivery and quality. So it has helped me to give me direction is a strategic level. Yeah. And that is the most important. Before that I, they come to me and resolve the query. Right now, I am that I feel that like I'm to reach the problem first and resolve the query before the person reaches out to me as an HR.

Jose Leal (19:52):

To identify the problem before they have to come to you and to help them with the problem before they have to. So they, you're not doing emergency firefighting, you're actually proactively helping people before that it becomes an issue. Yes. And it sounded, I really like what you just said about Agile is not about practice, Agile is about behavior. I think that's very, very true. It should be. It should be, it should be. But I think you probably feel this and see this Agile in most cases is actually just a set of practices and people don't really change their behavior, they just do the practices.

Rohit Bagul (20:44):

Yes.

Jose Leal (20:46):

Are you, have you been able to change that, to flip that from a bunch of practices to real people feeling it and actually being part of their change and how they see each other and how they behave?

Rohit Bagul (21:03):

I, yes. I'm also thinking about when you adopt Agile Pro as a process, then you are stuck in the same way. You just follow that particular repetitive attitude cycle and you just flow with them. But as a people operation, when you work as a people operation team, and you think your personal client is a people, okay, and this is your most important thing in the organization that time I'm not going through that particular process. I just follow what exactly, because Agile is a nimbleness. So whenever the people have something related to the, for example, it is the culture dev culture about the culture, we can say the organization culture, because this is the most important part of the Agile we can, if the, if you have a to transform, then concentrate on the culture because the base on the culture, your people are you know, work with the very dedicatedly and thing. As a people operation team, you as a people team, you achieve your goals.

Jose Leal (22:16):

And what do you... what's your definition of culture? Culture? What do you describe culture as?

Rohit Bagul (22:25):

Yes. My definition is about culture is what I believe and how I behave. Because the culture is not like it's like a super at all these, these things. It is what you behave on the floor, how to behave on the floor what you do in your day-to-day work, each and every day. Because of these people, these experiences you can correlate, you collect as feedback, and you can build your culture with that label. So this is my culture.

Jose Leal (23:04):

And so it's about you changing your beliefs and your behaviors and other people doing the same, and that's what you're talking about.

Rohit Bagul (23:15):

Yes,

Jose Leal (23:17):

Yes. So one of the things that we do with, as we envision a future that is not based on the force that we use right now, is what we call a fiat system, where everything is from the top, right? “You have to do this because I say, so here are the rules. You must obey the rules”. If you don't obey the rules, you're out of here. And more about what is it that you as a person need, and how can we help you do the things that you want to do as an interdependent way of working together that is about collaboration, not about Yes. Imposing force.

Jose Leal (24:02):

Yes. Right. For us, that's a big part of this process. But one of the things that I wonder there in India because it's, I think it's the first time we've interviewed someone from India on this podcast Yes. About this topic. And I really appreciate that you're willing to talk to us at the other time of the world because I know it's very, very late for you right there right now. Yes. So I appreciate that. And the, the, the question that I think is burning for me Rohit, is we think that the changes that you're describing are essential. And we see that as part of a, a co-management way of doing things where everybody's involved, everybody's working on a relationship, everybody's working on connecting, and that, that part of, of the equation, is very important.

Jose Leal (25:09):

But we really can't do that unless there's also what we call co-ownership. That everybody is not only collaborating with each other but that they also benefit from the outcome of that collaboration and that it's not someone else who's got the power to change the rules, to adjust to cha to make all the money, number one, or a lot of the money. Yes. And number two, to also have the ability to say, yeah, we don't want to do Agile anymore, we're going to do something else because I'm the boss and you don't have that thing. Do you think that the Indian corporate culture is capable of making that step, that that step is something that might happen?

Rohit Bagul (26:01):

Actually, if you think you talk about this. So first of all, if the organization has the courage, their bosses or the management have the courage to change, then it will be started. Okay? So why I personally or my team started to think about very different levels because we, whenever the situation is whenever we identify the situation, and then we are the person to share all the details with our, all the management team, okay, these are the concerns, these are the solution, we need to do that. So, they put their suggestions and we describe all these things, and then we share with the people in India Agile, into the people functions or HR functions. Literally, we can say about only one or 1%, or 2% implemented in the organization. Okay? So, if you want to adopt Agile as a behavior, not as a process, then you need to think about your need for courage because you need to talk about it with your people. And first of all, you need to change your mentality. You think about the change, about the transformation. You think about your business's goal also, because if your culture is good, your people are, if you think you are people-oriented, your team is working with the people first, then your business goal is to achieve whatever you say.

Jose Leal (27:43):

Yeah. And so, it sounds like it's very early in that transition there. Yes. that, that, that you don't see the transition being far enough along to even ask the question about ownership. Is that a fair way to answer that? Because you avoided the question a little bit. And it sounds like what you're saying is we're not even there yet. It's, it's way too early to have that conversation.

Rohit Bagul (28:17):

Okay. Yeah. No, I'm not avoiding any, any things because we believe in openness and that's why I'm here <laugh>, so

Jose Leal (28:28):

No, I appreciate that. But…

Rohit Bagul (28:30):

Yes.

Jose Leal (28:31):

Well, what I mean is, do you think that your organization or the other organizations of your friends that are working in, HR, that are even thinking at the level where they say the only way that Agile as an example could really work is we change the way that the order ship structure is, is done. Do you think they're there yet, that they're thinking about that?

Rohit Bagul (29:08):

Mm. Right now we have only one option for the Agile things. But yes, when we try to explore ourselves, when we try to explore various things like AI is our boom AI in the global, they are going to you know, settle down in, into the global world. So, this is also one thing. So if in future any other technique we can say the process or any kind of the things, if we identify, then we can, we will be welcome. But initially, this is our first food step to break all the traditional things. And right now we are thinking about something new. Okay. So when I identify this because we recently started to use design thinking, and also enter into the design thinking into the people operation teams when they are using. Mm-hmm. And they try to, you know, repeat the, all the entire session. Okay. So if we fail, then again experiment. If we fail again, experiment, and then we get something and new.

Jose Leal (30:15):

That's perfect. That's perfect.

Matt Perez (30:18):

Okay. I think we're out of time and next week's guest is, I think it's Hema or Gemma John, PhD, social sustainability specialist. And she's coming to us from Cape Town, South Africa. So, talk about far!

Jose Leal (30:41):

<Laugh> Yes. <Laugh> well, from India one week to Cape Town the next, so yeah. Yeah. It's, I'm really enjoying the, the fact that we get to meet such people from different places and with different experiences.

Matt Perez (30:56):

Yeah. We have to the South Pole in North Bar <laugh>. So that's the person last week, and we thank you Rohit, we thank you for your time and your effort and you are staying up until all hours of the night to this. So I really appreciate it.

Jose Leal (31:18):

Yeah. And Rohit if, if any of your colleagues you think doing things that would be interesting too, for the radical community to hear and explore new things, yes. We'd love to hear more about that. And please feel free to share them with us and vice versa. Yes. With them.

Rohit Bagul (31:42):

Yes. Yeah, sure. Sure. because today I talk with my, my team members also about this, my, today I'm going to be invited to this show. And I told them, because I'm very feeling very nervous <laugh>, but when our conversation started, then I feel very comfortable because yes, it is a very good conversation and healthy conversation we are guys doing. And yes, of course, I share if anyone is doing these things, I can share their names with you and contact them. Awesome. Cause in India, we are promoting we create our Agile people ops community to encourage Agile behaviors in the implement, into the processes around things. So yes, every month we are doing one webinar about the different topics related to the way people, ops, and Agile. So, our, our things are going on.

Jose Leal (32:41):

Yeah. If you would like us to speak at one of those one month please let us know. It would be interesting to have that conversation with your community.

Rohit Bagul (32:50):

Yes. Sure. Sure. I already have in my mind that.

Jose Leal (32:55):

<Laugh> a pleasure. Rohit, thank you again for the time, and for the work you're doing, because I know it's important to work to change the way we work. We both do. Yes. And so appreciate you taking the time and the effort that, that you're doing. So thank you again. Thank you. Ciao.

Rohit Bagul (33:13):

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.