A Radical Fireside Chat With...

Jose Leal:

Welcome to the Radical World Podcast. My name is Jose Leal. Today I am hosting a podcast. Matt will be hosting next time. We're in the midst of a number of changes. You'll see our radical logo here behind me and a new logo that represents the podcast, which is the Radical World podcast. We are starting in the month of March with a number of new changes. We'll be introducing some new podcast formats as well as having some different conversations with folks. And of course, Carlos also likes to change us just because it looks cool. And today we've got someone that I have really been looking forward to talk to Carmen Seda. Carmen has become a member of our community over the last month or two, and has really started to highlight, to me at least, and I think others some really interesting perspective about what radical means, not just a lot of the conversation we've been having about radical companies and the radical world movement that we are hoping to spark up through this conversations. But really talking about what it feels like to not know about what it means to be radical and not to have those questions be answered for, for us individually. So first of all, first of all, Carmen, thank you so much for making the time, being available and for the awesome conversations we've already had. Thank you.

Carmen Seda:

Thank you for having me here. I'm really excited to spend this time talking to you.

Jose Leal:

So, one of the things that I thought, and I I mentioned to you earlier that is special, is that you pointed out the fact that this conversation isn't all that common, right? That this is the type of conversation that people don't even really know that they can have or should have. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Carmen Seda:

I think for me, right, when I came across radical, the radical site, it was a message that I've been waiting to hear, to have more conversations with, but had no idea that an organization like yours was speaking about it in my line of work, right? I helped to try to make work cultures work for different people, right? To understand that human original aspect within each of us that exists. And so, so many times I realized that people don't even know that there is an option out there that what they're feeling within themselves as human beings that mean purpose to them, that mean their mission, that they have sort of written away, right? With sort of like, that screen. I love what you, you frame it that the fiat lens that that they're not even aware that they're wearing. And so when I think about having those conversations, or when I sit with people and really get to know within themselves what it is that is meaningful to them, instead of what we sometimes worry about, right? We've got to get this number out the door. We've got to do this, and let's go back to the purpose of this. It can radically change a conversation, right? It can make someone feel seen and heard. And in the world of work, that does not happen often enough.

Jose Leal:

No, it doesn't. And, and it, and it doesn't happen in our daily lives enough either in most cases, right? So, speaking of our daily lives, so tell us a little bit about who Carmen Seda is. How did you get to the point where you're having these conversations and asking these questions and, and helping folks with these issues?

Carmen Seda:

I have no idea.

Jose Leal:

That's a great place to start.

Carmen Seda:

It is the right place to start, right? I grew up in the Bronx. My family's from Puerto Rico, went to public school, you know, in, in all intents and purposes, when I think about that as a, it's like I was never supposed to be where I'm at right now. Not if you listen to the stories that you're sort of told as a child. And I did become a young mother and had a family. And through, honestly, I feel through the eyes of a mother of my own children and seeing how they were growing up and the world that they were becoming a part of, I decided to rejoin the workforce. And for me, having been in the workforce has been the greatest personal development that I have done for myself. Not because I just stepped into the work workplace and just adhered to everything, but because I, I think the only thing that I did different, right? Because I'm very humble. I don't, I don't think that there's anything that I'm doing that anybody else can't do. The only thing that I did is I allowed my creativity to show through, and I allowed others to be human in front of me. And because of that, you know, my career sort of took this trajectory, right? I, I was a stay at home mom for a while. I joined I couldn't even find work. No one would hire me at one point. And so I went into the retail, you know, for a holiday job that was only, only supposed to last the holiday season. And through that, you know, just one door kept opening into another, into another, and I landed into the world of staffing, which is the world of work.

Jose Leal:

Exactly.

Carmen Seda:

So, and here I am,

Jose Leal:

And here you are. And, and so tell me a little about, because I, I know we've had a conversation about how the world of staffing has been and is, and the potential to move beyond what we are already doing with the conversations that we've had.

Carmen Seda:

So I think if, if you wanted to think about it in, in terms of staffing itself, I think the lens, right? The lens that is in that space is we need workers to do X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z way and move it out X, Y, Z. And for all intents and purposes, the reason that I have the conversation is because that's not easy to do, right? Each and every one of these workers is a human being with their own innate abilities and their own reason for being right and sometimes unknown to themselves. And that creates, right, it creates a lot of pressure on the people that need to hire them. And it creates a lot of pressure. It, it starts from the top of the chain all the way down. And for me, I think one of the key things has been to be an advocate for the workplace, to be an advocate for the workers to come in to help them understand, to mediate in a, in a space, in a world where those lenses just want to stay on. They're really hard to focus on.

Jose Leal:

Well, and, and I think it really brings a special thing to the conversation, because we're so used to the idea that part of what we're fighting against is the hierarchy. When in reality, the folks that are in the hierarchy all the way up the chain, as you said they too, are wearing the lens. Yeah. They too, are susceptible to the same thing. They're just doing what they know how to do the best they know how to do. Yes. And the way that they've learned to do it, the lens that they wear causes them to just go by and do it. And they feel that I've been there, right. I was VP of a corporation in, in Toronto, Canada for 10 years. And, and I knew that what I was doing wasn't right, but I didn't know any other way to do it. And there was no other way to do it within the context that I felt I understood. Right? The structure of the organization, the relationship with the CEO, the relationship with my teammates, even if I knew how to do it differently, I, I don't know that, that that framework that existed for me of how things work, right? The A to Z thing, right? That's just the way it is, right? That's, it's it. And so I think the conversation we're having is, is not only to say that the system is not a system that serves us well, if it ever did, it's certainly not serving us well. Now, all the stress that you speak about, both from the organizational side and the employees, the stress there is, is huge. Right? It's on, on everyone's part, and you are in the middle. So it's stressful for you and, and others that are doing the work that you're doing you know, knowing full well. So I was just going to say, yeah, knowing full well that, that there's a, there has to be better ways, and that's the conversation. We're kind of having that conversation, but we're not having it at a deep enough level.

Carmen Seda:

And I was going to say when I, and, and didn't mean to interrupt you, but I think. I think the, the main concept that we need to step into is that most organizations, not all start just like this. Start with someone driven by passion to serve their constituents, to serve others, right? And so many organizations is the beautiful things, you know, I mean, the story of of, of my organization, it started with a college student bringing people in on a bicycle, right? To serve clients who did not have the help at the time that they needed. So here's the, the starting point. The starts with this radical lens of creating a difference in the world. And I don't think that that's what's wrong. What's wrong is as it grows, what happens after, right? If we could understand that the people that work for us need to be freely along on this mission with us, right? That freely are a voice within an organization, then we can start having a better idea of what that moves forward. Another point that you bring up is, is that as organizations put things in place, right? We know that A to z the process, the process, the process, and they create these processes of which this process box of an individual needs to fit in. None of us are like that. None of us were created an assembly line to be like a pencil and look like the exact same thing. And in, in one of my experiences, and I think this is why I understand this point, is I had this team of three managers each with distinct abilities, right? But they were each supposed to do the same exact job, right? And as I looked at it, I was like, well, this one is the technical person. I mean, she can drive down to the number and take care of everything. This one loves to influence the team. I mean, she trains them, she gets them going, and this one loves to live on the client and sell, sell, sell. And I started to say, well, why don't we work together on that? Why don't you do this for those three locations? Why don't you do this? And it ended up me, like I said, it, it was radical because it was like, wait, we're not supposed to do that. And I'm like, yeah, we can do that here, because we're each taking the best parts. We're learning from each other. But it's really hard to think that way, right? Not many of us do. It's like we fill out a job application and we're looking at the job description, and we're like, how do we fit in there? When instead as a company is looking at someone, is, how do you fit with us? What is your purpose? What are your missions? What are your innate gifts that bring you into this moment right now? How can you contribute in the best way possible for you? Right, right. If it's not seen that way.

Jose Leal:

Not at all. And that goes back to, to, I was going to define the, the, the fiat lens, because we've mentioned it a couple of times where we haven't really said what it is, and listeners, viewers of the podcast have heard this many times and those who haven't. The, the idea that we have created a view of the world collectively, no one's done it for us intentionally. No one's trying to hurt us, per se. Our parents didn't try to make to, to hurt us. Our community or our teachers, our bosses, no one's or very few people are trying to hurt us. Right? and, but they teach us what they've learned and they've learned that the world needs to be controlled. And they've taught us that we need to control others and that others will be controlling us. And that's the way that the fiat lens really came about. It's this idea that people aren't worth trusting. They can't be trusted. They will be creating chaos if you don't tell 'em exactly what to do and how to do it and when to do it, and why to do it. Well, you don't even need to tell 'em why to do it You just need to tell them to do it. Right? And, and so what we end up with is, is this culture of people who see each other as transactional bits, pieces to be moved around, like you just described. Right? Those three managers, like, okay, here's your job profile. There it is. Go do it and stay within the box. And, you know, and your sense of who these people were, your ability to see into their personality, the purpose that they have in this world, gave them an opportunity to, to do something different. To be something more like what they're capable of doing and what gives them passion. 'cause None of us want to do the things we don't want to do, right? Yeah. Because it's, it's just not, it's not us. No. Right. And being forced to do that generates stress. And I love, I love to think about you know, the work of, of Robert Polsky because he's done such amazing work in understanding stress, both and, and other primates and ourselves that when we are told to do something or forced to do something, it creates stress for us. And that stress doesn't just feel like momentary stress. I'm all stressed out right now, but it actually impacts our cardiovascular system. So our, our heart disease comes from that stress. And it's been shown over and over again that, that this is not only not healthy for us physically, but also emotionally. Then we're, then we're, you know, we get angry, we get upset, and we start rebelling. We disconnect, we disengage a huge problem that we're experiencing in the workplace. People are disengaged. Why are they disengaged? Well, because they live in a world of stress, a a world of having to do things because the lens that the people who are giving them the work is one of having to control the situation. Because like, I didn't, it sounds like you did, which is amazing, but like, I didn't, people just do what is easy to do, which is to control the situation rather than learning to connect with people and giving them the room to negotiate a place for them. One that is in keeping with who they are,

Carmen Seda:

Jose. But it takes, it takes a mission to get there. Right? And but you just shared that is the why. That is what, for some reason, we don't see, we have a blindfold on to what is occurring within our bodies when we're in these states of prolonged stress. And I say this because I, about six, seven years ago, I went through a major burnout and it didn't make sense to me at the time because I had all these A through Z goals that I was going to meet. And here I was meeting them. And I remember, you know, like the American dream of buying your own house. And, you know, it was after my divorce and I bought my own house. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, I did it. I got what I wanted, but I still had this insane amount of anxiety within my body. I still couldn't sleep at night. I still couldn't. And I was like, okay, what is going on with me? Like, what is wrong? Right. Everything outside was fine. Right? By all intents, I had gotten promotion at work. My kids were off to college. I got the house, the car that I paid for, like according to that lens, I was doing remarkable. And I was being commended at how strong I was and how, wow, how did you get this done? But my body wasn't feeling it. My body was in a state of survival mode and stress. And I say this because I now use that as my compass. I use that as my compass. When I am feeling stressed, I'm knowing something isn't right. I'm feeling controlled by something that isn't genuine to me, and we know it. Right? Another thing that you mentioned in your conversation was about people being told what they, how to do and how you do it. Yet you complete those tasks and you feel no source of satisfaction out of them because you know, the next day they're going to be right back on your plate and they're not really what you want to be doing. That is a sign, that is a sign that we are not living to our purpose. And as human beings, I mean, my God, we're only here for a limited amount of time. We're here to be living in purpose.

Jose Leal:

Exactly. And, and, and that purpose is unique to each and every one of us. Yes. And that's part of the glory of life, is to discover it, to learn it, to, to be it in a way that, that we can, and yet no one teaches us that. No one teaches us that when we're younger the, the, the, the work that we do as far as a society of teaching children to read and write, versus the work that we could do to teach children to be themselves and to understand what their feelings are saying to them, stress isn't the fact that you can't cope. Right. Stress is the fact that your body is saying, what's happening to me is not right. And, and that should be the lesson that we all teach each other. And yet we don't, we blame people for not being strong enough. I felt that. I felt that at work when things were really, really stressful, what I would do is not sleep, as you describe and think for myself, oh wow, you know, my colleagues are okay with this. Why am I the one that, that can't cope? Why am I not strong enough? Why am I the one that, that's struggling so hard with this? And it turns out later, all of my colleagues were feeling the same way, but none of us were willing to show it. Right. No. And it's, and it's, that's the conversation that that's the conversation. Radical isn't just about the fact that we want to create new ways of organizing. 'cause That is the dream radical companies that people both co-own and co-manage their organization. That's the dream in a radical world where organizations collaborate with each other, not compete with each other, but to get there, we need to understand that we have a lens that doesn't allow us to see that as a possibility. Even working together is, even just collaborating together isn't a possibility. The first question anybody asks is, who's going to manage that? Who's going to be the boss? Who's going to tell what, what everybody else needs to do?

Carmen Seda:

Very true. Very, very true. Instead of, who's going to see who we have on our team and or what is everyone here great at?

Jose Leal:

Let's, let's come together and let's have a conversation. What is it that you want to bring to the table? You experienced that actually in the co-learning community. Yeah. Where we, we did the collaborative process and the collaborative canvas. And every time I do that, it, I learn something new about myself because it opens up another door to have a conversation with different people about different aspects, because they bring out in me something different, right. Like having you there, creates a different dynamic. It creates a different opening for what I can express, because you give me that permission and, and that. But, but I hope I do the same for you and others that same way, right? That we do that for each other. And that's a, that's a, a unique way of, of looking at how we collaborate. That it comes from our needs, it comes from our desire to impact the world. To serve the world in a way that isn't about control. Not even controlling ourselves, but allowing ourselves to be in a way that, that generates an opportunity to serve.

Carmen Seda:

I love that you just said that to me, because when I did that exercise, it was like clear to me why I am where I am right now, the work that I'm doing, and the direction that I'm headed with it. And it is about that for me, that is my purpose, is to allow others to be seen for exactly who they are, so that they can embrace that uniqueness within themselves that make them great and own it without the need of anyone else's validation. Right. And it, it calls, it's a two-way calling because we have to accept ourselves before we can accept others. And that's what I love about the conversation that you're bringing to light. The more that we do that, the more that we can step into that energy, the more and more we're going to see that expand. Because it's expansive. You feel expanded afterwards.

Jose Leal:

Exactly. Exactly. And that's the radical lens. The radical lens starts with that understanding that we have a radical purpose to express in the world, and that that energy wants to come out, but we haven't learned to even see it for ourselves or to discuss it with each other. And, and that takes me to the next step, because for me, we've had a lot of traditions of awareness, many traditions of awareness that ask us to, to pray, to meditate, to all of which are really about the same thing. Reflect Right. Reflect, become aware. But what I think may be missing from these traditions is that we've never done this collectively.

Carmen Seda:

There's power in the collective.

Jose Leal:

How do we have this awareness, experience, this journey of a radical lens? From a place of shared experience, a place of helping each other go through it, questioning one another, having this language, this way of understanding what's happening, become a part of our day-to-day, not simply in our bedrooms or in our living rooms with our eyes closed, but, but in connection with each other. Who I am, who you are, are beautiful things. But we think that only when we are being aware of ourselves, we don't reflect that to each other. How do we do that? How do we honor each other's uniqueness in, in a way that that brings it to light.

Carmen Seda:

I love that you mentioned that, right? Because again, back to that part of my story, where I'm going through this body traumatic stress experience, and I did all of the things that you just mentioned. Right. I did reiki, I did a meditation, I am a yoga teacher. And for me, when you're saying that's what everyone is searching for, right? And yes, all of those modalities are immensely, immensely beneficial. Right? They help you to start listening to yourself, to bring awareness to yourself, but the minute that you step away from that, the minute that you step away from it and you enter back into that fiat lens world, it stays there. Right? Yeah. And so what's missing is exactly what you're saying is that collaboration, that collective knowledge of not only that wisdom within me, but that wisdom within you and how those two wisdoms serve each other. Right. That's, that's the beautiful part of it.

Jose Leal:

Yeah. I’ve started to think that becoming or awakening or growing cannot be done by Melo. If, if, if I, every day, you know, we, we have this lens that, that, you know, we use. And it's like, if every morning I flip this up, by the end of the day it's slammed back down, right? Yeah. 'cause I can, I can wake up and go, yeah, I'm going to be my radical best self today, right? And then all of the fiat stuff just kicks in. And you have to do this, and you have to do that, and you have to do that, and you have to do that. And before you know it, it's slam shut again. And at the end of the day, you're exhausted again, and you're stressed again because you're, you are not in an environment that's helping you keep it up.

Carmen Seda:

We need to.

Jose Leal:

No one else is supporting.

Carmen Seda:

Keep their hands up. Put that thing back up. Don't, don't let it go down. It's going down again. Flip it back up again.

Jose Leal:

Right. Not only to help me to say flip it up, but also not to be the one that imposes it. Right.

Carmen Seda:

Which that is hard too.

Jose Leal:

Right. Because if someone's imposing it on me, and I don't have the language to say, what lens are you using right now? Because that question to me means that we're opening the door on a conversation that is critical for us to have individually in the workplace. Because I don't think that there is a work me and a live, you know, a life me. Right? And we, we spend so much time at work that if we can't do it there, where can we do it?

Carmen Seda:

No, I know. We, we've had this saying too, within our organization, bring your whole self to work. Right. And embracing diversity and inclusion and what you just said reminds me of that. But it has to be in every part of our lives, bring ourselves to work, who we are, how we are. And it is amazing, right. When you think about it, that we've got to learn how to separate for us to see that we are a unit of a whole. Right. And we've heard that said in so many different ways, we are one. Yes. And we are this, and I've, and I've told others, it's like, if we really start to look at it, we are the kaleidoscope. Right? With all the little colors and triangles that sort of fit together. Each one very different and unique. That's exactly how we're meant to be. We are this whole, but each and every little piece is different. Just like each and every wave of an ocean. It's different size at different depths. That is what makes us who we are. But until we learn that that inner piece, that little piece that belongs in the whole comes from inside of us and not the reflection outside of us. Right. Does that help to start to make sense? But it is, it is a lot. We are bombarded with so much. Right? So much social media, so much measurement, so much, you know, the schooling part, right. Valedictorian. Well, there should be an artorian who was, you know, who excelled at art, who was singing, right. Who's the drama person? Who is the one who is like the caring humanity person that everyone wants to be near? Who is the one in the class who is, you know, just advocating for everybody else's. Right. So who calls out things that they feel are wrong. Exactly. They're not even entitled to their own opinions. Right. We have to sit there and be this part of a whole that stays shut. That's not.

Jose Leal:

The only thing that matters is what was your grade today?

Carmen Seda:

Yes.

Jose Leal:

What was your grade after four years? What, what's your grade after this year? And we've built a society of people whose only lens is to chase after that control mechanism, which is grades that control mechanism, which is titles. And raises and reviews. Right. Because they're all the same thing. Yes. Whether it's that little star in the first grade. Or, you know, the A, B or C or D in, in the higher grades, or a, a good number four on our 360 review

Carmen Seda:

Exactly. We're rewarded for how well we do what people tell us not to think, not to be original thinkers.

Jose Leal:

Not to be ourselves.

Carmen Seda:

Not to be ourselves.

Jose Leal:

It's, and so, so the, the, the radical lens for me, you know, when people hear the word radical, I know what they think. You know, most of it is like radical that that's not good. It sounds like something that What, what do you mean radical? Well, it's a wake up call. It's a wake up call. Radical is the root of humanity. The word radical means root. And humanity is unique. Humanity wants to have autonomy. Humanity wants to live to its full potential. And we've built this lens that does just the opposite of all that. So please go ahead.

Carmen Seda:

No, I just wanted to say, I, as I'm listening to you, I'm just envisioning the world as radical where children grow up honoring who they came into this world to be. Where everything we serve others, we give to others, we are in a very abundant world being taught that there's a limited resources where there's not, this world is abundant. And if we learn how to prosper like that together, how beautiful of a world it would be for everyone. You know, in, in, in my line of work, there's a lot of fear of artificial intelligence. Intelligence. What about if it's to liberate us to do more for each other, what about if we were able to take it so that it can do greater things, allowing each and every human to step into their gifts? I love it. That's, I love your message. I love it. And I love your message.

Jose Leal:

And we need to, we need to do this together, because that's part of the other thing. We can't, we can't just go around selling this as a solution. No training coaches to go train people to be radical, because that is yet again, force. So this process that we're undertaking is one of how do we do it without forcing it? How do we do it without using the old mechanisms of, of the fiat lens, which is to tell people we know what's best. Because again, fiat comes from the king said, this is what it is, this is what must be. Right. If we want workplaces and our lives to have a culture that is better than the one we have today, and then to see the systems become better than they are today, that serve us better than they serve us today, we're going to have to build those. We keep thinking that we need to change the system, change the system. Now we need to change us because we are the ones that are going to build the systems. We can't expect the system to change, to be the thing we want it to be. If we ourselves don't help each other change to create the system we want to see How do we do that? Because for me, the world that you're working in is a world that as much as it practically helps a lot of people, it's still has that, that lens operating throughout it. And I've stepped away from that world. So I say the world, you are learning because I, I've stepped away from it, but I know that most of us are there. And, and how do we help people survive that and become the full capability of who they are? I don't know if you saw the podcast, or pardon me, the Ted Talk what was his name? Robinson sir. He, he's, he's a researcher from the UK. He's since passed, and he worked with education and, and a pa a parent came to him and said, my child isn't doing well. What do I need to do with her? She just buzzes around the room. The teachers want to kick her out of school because she just won't sit down and she won't. And he said, she's a dancer. And that individual wound up being the choreographer in one of the main programs in in New York. So I'm not doing it justice describing it. But it is Ken Sson, I believe is his name. I'm really bad with names, so I shouldn't bring those, I shouldn't bring those up. But, but it's, it is a very popular Ted talk because it really shows what we're talking about, that each of us have something to share with the world. And when a fiat lens, someone else's fiat lens is being used to, to define who we are in the world, we're breaking that natural system, that nor natural order of what should be and how we could be.

Carmen Seda:

Yes, it does.

Jose Leal:

Let me ask you a couple of questions, because I, I can't, now that I've got you here, I don't want to let you go, but we do need to wrap up. I, I think that that the work that we're doing is very, very important. Obviously, I wouldn't be doing it if I wasn't certainly with my radical lens on, right? And one of the things that I find really special is finding people like you who are not only eager to do this work, but have done the work to lead them to feel that this is just the next step. What would you say to folks that, that are either not quite there yet or have just gotten there? How would you tell them your experience of, of what it means to realize that this conversation is being had and that there is an opportunity for us to collectively change us, the community and the world?

Carmen Seda:

For me, I tell people that I've, that I've come into contact with, number one, their bodies, their bodies, what they're feeling within their bodies is telling them something. Number two, you are your own master. You are your own guru. No one, no one is going to know what is in your heart and soul and purpose other than you. And the day that you stop measuring yourself against what the outside world wants you to see, and let what your inside wants you to see, right? That, that is the pinnacle of change. That is where our freedom, not totally happiness, right? Happiness comes through a whole host of different things, but that in itself is our key to the freedom to being ourselves. And when it comes to your message, is that the more and more that those free people step out into this world, the more that I do the work that you're putting forth and other people are putting forth, the more that they do their own work, the more and more we are going to live in a place that allows each and every human to be exactly who they're supposed to be.

Jose Leal:

I expected a beautiful answer, and I got it. Thank you so much. Okay, so here's my last question. What's your dream for a radical world?

Carmen Seda:

My dream for a radical world is to know that everyone that I come in contact with is doing their part, their best part to be who they are. That in my presence, everyone can be free within themselves. That my grandchild, children can like go out there. I have, there's now like almost, but I have two biological 500 total. But granddaughters can be the women that they were meant to be, and that they are honored just the way that they are. It means that, you know, companies can be a place of learning, a place of personal development and understanding purpose-filled work with humanity at the core, that health and, and, and the ability to nourish, you know, the body with food, with great food, that those are the things that are honored it and that are the pinnacle of what our nation, oh, forget the nation, the world, right, is really addressed for, that, to me is a dream, to know that I can go anywhere and there's something nourishing that I don't have, like, you know, things that are bad for my health, that I'm able to honor my body in front of anyone. I'm not feeling this well, honor me. I honor you. And I think that's the key to it, right? Because when we do that, that's when that oneness comes in. That's what, that's true belonging, right? I sometimes have a word with that word, belonging, because belonging automatically means we need to fit in. And it's, no, we're not meant to fit in, but we just belong perfectly and uniquely the way that we are.

Jose Leal:

That scent shivers down my back, and I'm being honest that. Carmen, I wish we could go for another hour, and I, and I really mean that because this has been a beautiful conversation, a beautiful, radical conversation. And I, I truly appreciate it.

Carmen Seda:

Thank you Jose.

Jose Leal:

Genuineness and your and the heart, which with which you bring to the conversation and, and to yourself being yourself. And I appreciate that very, very much. I'm now going to do a little list of a bunch of things that we're going to change next month. So starting in March, we are going to be introducing two new podcast types. We're going to be doing radical Pioneers, which is a, a conversation with Matt Perez, my partner and myself about how radical came about. What, what drove us to do this crazy thing and, and how did it over the years, and it has been years did it become what it is today And, and, and to, to tell the story of, of what radical and the radical world is about. And so that's one segment that we're going to be having every a couple of times a month. We're also going to be doing radical bits. People like Carmen and others will be able to participate in the podcast by having their segment a radical bit, talking about what they're passionate about. And it's up to them what it, what they say and how they say it. They're part of the radical community, and they'll be able to participate in the radical bits segment that we'll be doing. And of course, we'll continue having these conversations as we have been. I'll be doing one. Matt will be doing the other, we'll be doing two per month and this radical or podcast conversations. So thank you very much again, Carmen, thank you to our audience for listening and watching this and looking forward to seeing them and hearing them next month and all of the new types of segments that we are going to be having. Would love to profusely thank you for your words today and, and the passion with which you brought to the conversation. So looking forward to doing more with you, looking forward to your radical bit and also looking forward to us working together in, in the co-learning community as we move forward. So that being said, it was a real pleasure and we'll see you soon.

Carmen Seda:

Same here, Jose. Thank you.

Jose Leal:

Thank you.